Flexible Groove Quantization for MIDI Recording
planned
D
David Last
Description
This feature request proposes the implementation of flexible groove quantization options for MIDI recording in Loopy Pro. The goal is to provide users with advanced tools to adjust the timing and feel of MIDI recordings, enhancing musical expression and aligning with various rhythmic styles.
Problems
- Rigid Quantization: Currently, Loopy Pro offers basic quantization settings that may not accommodate the nuanced timing required for different musical genres or personal playing styles.
- Limited Groove Customization: Users lack the ability to apply swing, shuffle, or custom groove templates to MIDI recordings, restricting creative possibilities.
- Inconsistent Timing Feel: Without flexible groove quantization, achieving a humanized or genre-specific rhythmic feel requires manual adjustments, which can be time-consuming and imprecise.
Proposed Solution
- Advanced Quantization Options: Introduce a range of quantization settings, including swing percentages, shuffle rhythms, and customizable groove templates.
- Real-Time Groove Application: Allow users to apply and adjust groove settings in real-time during MIDI recording and playback.
- Groove Template Library: Provide a library of preset groove templates representing various musical styles (e.g., funk, jazz, hip-hop) and allow users to create and save custom templates.
- Visual Feedback: Implement visual indicators within the MIDI editor to display the applied groove adjustments, aiding in precise editing and alignment.
Benefits
- Enhanced Musical Expression: Flexible groove quantization enables users to infuse their MIDI recordings with desired rhythmic feels, enhancing the musicality of their productions.
- Streamlined Workflow: Real-time groove application and visual feedback simplify the process of achieving the intended timing, reducing the need for manual corrections.
- Creative Versatility: A comprehensive set of groove options allows users to experiment with different rhythmic styles, fostering creativity and innovation in their music.
This summary was automatically generated by ChatGPT-4 on 2025-05-08.
D
David Last
Certain rhythmic feels are easier to mimic mathematically (ex: basic shuffle), but the goal of creating an all-encompassing artificial human feel would be pretty much impossible to achieve because of all the different types of rhythmic expression all over the world! So it can only be done by quantizing to a series of different human performances, or using a neural network trained on such human performances (which is computationally too heavy to be useful at this point).
‘Humanization’ in software is most often implemented as a simple randomize of the note placement, to mimic a musician who doesn’t play like a machine. But the thing is, a really great groove drummer is incredibly precise, they just have a specific (intended) rippling effect to their rhythmic feel. Which is not at all random, and is basically impossible to describe mathematically. This is why Ableton and some other sequencers use the notion of a ‘groove pool,’ where MIDI files are used to create an altered quantize grid. MIDI files played by humans.
Certain rhythmic feels in wide use in parts of the world (South America, North Africa etc) are purposely not even based on a mathematically ‘flat’ grid. In the case of rhythms like gnawa or samba, you have a repeated cyclical oblong note placement within a single bar. Jacob Collier describes samba feel as a ‘rolling egg’ feel instead of the rolling of a fully round wheel, which is accurate, as each grouping of four 16ths has its own kind of rhythmic flex-spacing, none of which sit exactly on the ‘correct’ 16th-gridline except the first note. On top of that, the spacing of notes closer to the end of a phrase can be pushed out even further, at the musical-taste discretion of the players. So the whole grid becomes a rippling pond, with varying sizes of ripples, rather than a flat gridded surface. This is the beauty of rhythmic feel.
Those kind of feels would be exceptionally hard to create artificially, though i do use LFOs in my modular synthesizer to flex the clock pulse to do some subtle effects like this. Which is really interesting as an experiment but isn’t going to fool anybody that it’s a human performance. 😉
I’ve had plans for a new kind of sequencer in mind for a couple of decades but i will never implement it, i’m sure, so i’m happy to chime in here on this topic, as Loopy Pro is such an incredible tool, and is fairly priced for people all over the world to afford. And i’d love to see groove quantize in such a useful tool!
Michael Tyson
planned
pr4y
Michael Tyson: 4Pockets has good ways of recording unquantized midi notes in his apps, (which of course can be quantized).. maybe it’s worth reaching out to him? Another thing is I love “humanization” over “swing” and “quantization” because it adds “swing” at different off time intervals randomly but very subtle, so instead of a uniform swing beat to every clip sequence, it’s randomized per instance it’s turned on (per track).. I feel like this wouldn’t be hard to code tho, just set a function that sets four-six different “segments” in the midi file (or you could think of a way to do like a paper shred approach an mix them further) and you set a macro for the mod dial that one segment will go up JUST slightly, the next down, next up slightly more, down a TINY bit, up, etc (giving each segment random values between -10 and 35 for the quantize value,) then it’s even yet more human, with random off syncs and swing instead of uniform like a programmed swing but still better at staying on beat. The key is presence and depth. (Presence : How noticeable is it? And depth : how off beat is it? Garage band and Logic Pro x does this but in a more customiszable way than a single “humanize” macro, they basically added reason studios “figure” and you can set of often each sound will trigger (amount of times in the loops it will play), # of beats the sound is being counted in, so you can have your kick on a 3/4 sig and snare on a 6/8, then you can set the intensity levels of each different hat, change and tweak each hat sound, and then add the frequency level (how often,) for drum fills which are random when they happen. You can pick genre, and different characters, and it is interesting to mix characters and genres, like a rock and roller playing some boom bap drum machine style 90s west coast, because of the patterns it will generate, and the sounds playing have a slight displacement in your minds… ear, so, yeah your ear. Interesting results. Then instead of midi, this generates a live track, and you can set when they come in, cut out, automate things, change drummers or generation algorithm ms l, and when you change it it will change the drum track waveform live, and that’s how Apple tries to stop people from using MIDI for their drum programming, for whatever reason. But unless you are just a “all original no loops only my own Melodie’s and samples” type of person (then you better make all your drums from a drum synthesizer or record some drum foley) then this is almost better cus you can get nearly any genre or vibe from this and it’s generative so each song you make can have the same settings and end up with a different drum track each time.. anyway thanks for listening or reading. And if you didn’t, that’s ok too I tend to ramble..
One more thing, can you email me the link to request a new feature? Cooperwaynelyle@gmail.com thank you I can’t find the “suggestion box”
pr4y
Michael Tyson: the midi tape recorder plugin guy people say might be good to talk to but that app doesn’t allow for ANY midi note editing it’s basically loopy with no quantization at all even in the slightest so I don’t know why people think that’s a good option to add its like taking what’s already here, and wanting worse, while demanding better.. I don’t get it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
A
Alexandre Enkerli
pr4y: What Geert Bevin did with MIDI tape recorder is quite different from Loopy. Both are really good at what they do.
The “inspiration” we hope can derive from it has a lot more to do with the coding itself than with the way the app works. (Otherwise, we'd probably just use the app.) Among challenges with MIDI looping are things like stuck notes. Bevin has dealt with those appropriately.
Besides, people have diverse needs. For instance, some of us don’t even use quantization while others have never used anything unquantized.
J
J
pr4y No, why that app called midi type recorder is they take recording midi as audio, which is what Loopy Pro is doing great now. I suggest the same audio recording like UNEDITED MIDI reording must be one of the options if not the only one